!--CALIFORNIA got rid of the death penalty!!! Bobby about mescaline deals and Danny DeCarlo, Pat about not carving WAR on Leno or instructing Leslie to wipe prints {she told the '78 hearing panel there were "15 or 16" things that she would like to correct that Steven Kay got wrong}, Susan about not stabbing Sharon, Leslie about being coerced to "do something," Bruce about the involvement of Tex, Bill Vance & Larry Jones in Shorty's murder and Tex about Susan not stabbing Tate, carving WAR and making Leslie stab Rosemary when she had chickened out ~ none of these things are part of the official record and are not taken on board as being so but the prisoners continue[d] to follow those lines.I'm of the opinion that some of what you get from people who are willing to spill the beans after conviction have to be taken on board if one is going to attempt to understand these people in the aftermath of that point they were at when they committed their crimes. 'show the blacks how its done' + (3.) Given that she says all this in more or less the same group of sentences {in Robert's book}, which is it ? Debra Tate Disgraces the Words Victims' Advocate, Manson Blog Reveals True Identity and Fate of Ruby Pearl. But always focusing on credibility and reliability of a witness can lead to an assumption that if they aren't reliable, that they aren't telling the truth or if they can be shown to be not credible, that whatever they say shouldn't really be entertained. Before Tate-LaBianca She attended Milford High School in Milford, New Hampshire in 1964 and 1965. BUT Bugliosi said she (only she oddly) thought it was a creepy crawl mission. Oh and I don't think the events are clear long before Jay Sebring is shot. That's not the way I use it at all. In a 2009 docu-drama by Cineflex, she elaborated her story for the first time in detail. var part3 = "David at Mansonblog dot com"; var part2 = "mansonblog.com"; Bob Kasabian wanted to go back to Spahn's Ranch to get his daughter, but Linda was too afraid. Usually, when I'm reading them, I try to guess who has written them before I get to the end. Dreath saidWhen you get to the heart of it, it is Bugliosi who says the motive was HS (+ megalomania+ anti-social hatred of the establishment+ lust for murderIt starts as being the other way around, HS being last on the list. Exact chronology and constant detail rarely happens, even in nice things we describe. Question: Did Deemers know what he was talking about? 3. I meant that they claim to know the "Real motive" My apologies George. In the most beloved profession in America we are trained to disregard the Parry Mason notion of courtrooms: someone actually out and out lying on the witness stand. In fact, if I recall correctlyI believe she said earlier to her attorneys they went back to the ranch. They only knew she didn't partake in violence because at Cielo, she was look out and wasn't asked. With her marriage falling apart, she decided to move in with the family on their dilapidated Spahn's Ranch. Now you seem to be hating on John McCain who enlisted, was shot down, and tortured at the Hanoi Hilton. Charlie out and free. Thing is though, it can be hard to spot or be conclusive at the time because it feels kind of heavy to assume a child or teenager is on the road to ruin due to things they might have done or be doing that haven't yet bloomed into something that everyone holds their heads in their hands about.That job as an aide at a nursing home sounds so kind and sweet..Perhaps I'm cynical, and she found joy sponge bathing a freshly soiled seniorI don't think you were being any more cynical than anyone else gets when discussing Mrs K and I don't think she was a nursing home aide out of some strong desire to replicate Florence Nightingale. I know a couple really well who actually became quite successful. How do you know it would have been a black service member? Manson Mythos saidThere is an interesting quote from Fleischmann in an issue of the Free Press prior to Kasabian becoming the star witness. Some I'm not done pondering, some need more research and I am trying to find an expert or two. So WHY was Bugliosi and or the DA so obsessed with getting Charles Manson instead ?Bottom line question Robert; do you think Manson was guilty as charged or not ? There is no one inside. Her marriage later fell apart. Sorry, St. but there is nothing in that video where Krenwinkel talks about HS. The getaway driver that Tex laid into for starting the car, whom he didn't let drive.Linda doesn't sound so willing, really. How about the ones who went into service and spent the war stateside?BTW: I was one of the cowards who got a college degree during that time. Dreath saidDo I give weight to what anyone says after they were convicted: Not much. Go figure that one out.NOW, thank God, the whole issue of heroes, sacrifice and cowards is finally coming out of the closet. I believe it. All I am saying is that if your going to make a case for sympathy or redemption- who is a better choice? I believe, in fact I know, others were present when he was killed who were never even charged. And if robbery or burglary had been the motive, there wouldn't have been any need to print the words in the victims' blood at the scene of both residences. Hearing screams, she ran towards the house and witnessed the killing of Wojciech Frykowski by Watson. DEBUNKING THE BUNK PART 1: A Look at Joel Rostau, Thoughts on the LaBiancas and the motive on August 10th, Benedict Canyon Acoustics and Bugliosi's Timeline, The Law: Conspiracy to Commit Murder, Felony Murder and One for the Colonel. In 1968, the couples first daughter Tanya was born. 2 facts will always remain, namely that Tonya was safe and returned safely and that Linda set out out to retrieve her and did so.even in the worst of circumstances- people can make their own fate / But not Linda. There were a number of details like this that came out, even worse ones during the Watson trial. I also don't think it let's Manson 'off the hook'.Then again if Van Houten really wanted to cut holes in her shirt for her elf wings maybe a bottomless pit with a secret magical realm, living there for 100 years and growing to 144,000 souls was part of it. I liked your book and you- but don't agree with your conclusions :). Considering over a little more than three months prior to the murders she didn't have a valid one, I WOULD SAY she didn't.I could be wrong, but the use of the word "valid" in the May 1969 news article could be an indication of that. But again, while Susan was playing ball, Linda was surplus to requirements.and helping her knock Atkins out of the boxThat's the part I really don't believe. I only decide how I wanna feel. But wait a minute Grim, Atkins never mentions this event to the Grand Jury, not a word. [And Bugliosi leads a reluctant Kasabian to the answer he wants. The failed policies of passive resistance, marching and speeches must give way to the use of violence to bring about social change because the pigs are using violence against us. She mentioned to the Grand Jury that there were to be 2 death squads. On August 8, 1969, Kasabian and. yeah, let's all comply with Saint. Not only that, they all happened to be dramatic and under the surfaces lurks alternative and more reasonable possibilities.For example: Bugliosi had a problem. Obama just pardoned a woman who was serving "life" in Federal prison for helping a friend to launder some "drug" money.So what can possess an otherwise normal human being to gamble with THEIR entire life on this earth, which is likely to be the REAL heaven. I guess what I am saying is that people like Linda - and yes, even Tex - may be victims of their own bad wiring, NOT to the point of excusing what they have donebut certainly warranting more thought than just slapping the bad or evil tag on them. The two split up, but reconnected when Robert invited Linda to come out to California. Back then British law was tough. But Bugliosi it appears killed two birds with one stone. Why any of them were picked isn't really relevant is it ? If Perry and other legal dramas were like real life in courtrooms, few would watch them !You are trained, instead, to focus on "indicia of credibility and reliability"That's partly why people on trial will dress "respectably." You are certainly entitled to that because we can't read her mind. She was one of the earliest to actually begin the process of putting flesh on Skelter's bones. Low level of intelligence: Blanket judging others as having a low level of intelligence because they don't agree with you on your low intellect, racist ideas.Manson Mythos, Obama is:Community organizerAttorneyConstitutional law professorState SenatorUS SenatorPOTUSNobel LaureateManson Mythos:Angry racist moron. Her new family, though, was already falling apart. But I can't see that all of the chronology matters. Bugliosi did say that he had planned to question Susan later so who knows, it may have come up. In 1968, the couple's first daughter Tanya was born. Grim, Probably move the goal posts was not the best turn of a phrase. It seemed to make little difference because when push came to shove, the jury wanted to know what happened during those two nights of murder and all the sidetracking in the world couldn't get in the way of that. It must have taken a lot of time and effort to research and put this post together. The charges against her were dropped when she agreed to attend a drug counselling session. Is Linda a good or bad person? I try not to view life in a binary way. "The ONLY reason we're all confused is because "Healter Skelter" and "Death to Pigs" were written in blood at the LaBianca crime scene. Leslie told Marvin Part what she believed.Marvin Part thought she was mad.Part taped her and asked her questions that brought the very answers that had led him to the conclusion she was a lunatic.Part wanted the Judge to hear the tape but he refused and ordered 3 psychiatrists to listen to it to see if they felt she was fit to stand trial.Leslie herself refused to be examined by any psychiatrists because as far as she was concerned she was perfectly sane.Leslie fired Marvin Part.The events mash rather than bear out your assertion.We also overlook the fact both Manson and the girls could have easily attempted to put the entire thing on Tex WatsonThat's a really good point. That is just an elementary interpretation that most will have.But now, nearly fifty years later, allot of folk want to cut the girls a bit of slack - primarily because they all seem(ed) to have repented and become what most would call "nice people".But you don't find many, if any, willing to cut the two Charles any slack. As soon as Atkins testifies Bugliosi has a pretty good case against Kasabian. Those who became 18 before 1980. For Susan it was over relatively quickly so Sharon being left alone for a short space of time may not be as relevant as you imply it is. Disgraces the Words Victims ' Advocate, Manson Blog Reveals True Identity Fate. Violence because at Cielo, she was one of the chronology matters dropped when agreed... Creepy crawl mission well who actually became quite successful the ranch a minute Grim, Atkins never this... With one stone got rid of the death penalty!!!!!!!!... To know the `` Real motive '' My apologies George there were to be 2 death squads he! 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